Q&A – Key Issues in Transportation

By | July 27, 2020

With so many questions coming in from attendees during our annual Key Issues in Transportation webinar, we were not able to answer all of the great questions during the allotted time. Following the webinar, the FTR Experts took additional time to go through all of the Q&A we received.

Listen or read below for the fully transcribed additional Q&A from this webinar.

Table of Contents:

  • Q1: Trucking & Intermodal
  • Q2: Automotive Market, Rail, & Equipment
  • Q3: Canadian Grain Movements
  • Q4: Trucking, Overcapacity, & Payroll Protection Program
  • Q5: Consumer vs Industrial Products in Intermodal
  • Q6: Rail Carload Volumes
  • Q7: Railcar Utilization
  • Q8: Truck Volumes & Demand Forecasting Methodology
  • Q9: Refrigerated Trucking
  • Q10: Trucking Length of Haul & eCommerce
  • Q11: Dakota Access Pipeline & Rail
  • Q12: Intermodal Competitive Index

DISCLAIMER: This text was automatically transcribed and may include typographic, grammatical, and contextual errors that differ from the speaker’s intention.

QUESTION 1: Trucking & Intermodal

Q: We’ve seen some strong indications in the truck spot market and the FTR truck freight recovery index that shows trucking doing pretty good during June and at the beginning of July.

We’ve also seen some of that on the intermodal side as well. Do you view this as just a normal hot environment for trucking as we get into the summer? Or do you see some other aspect happening that’s going to switch the marketplace as we kind of get out of the traditional peak season here in June and watch things slow down as we get into the dog days?

Avery Vise: I think there certainly is some seasonality built in, even though we’re so disrupted. And I think it’s probably most pronounced in the refrigerated sector due to produce. But some of it clearly is seasonal. On the other hand, I also think that it’s possible that we’re seeing trucking starting to benefit a little bit from the disruption in several ways. One of which is that we now have this emerging demand in automotive and other sectors for parts and components to build stuff again. But we already had inventory for it. A lot of that movement by truck is from warehouses to production facilities. It’s stuff that’s already there. The other big part is that the spot market thrives on disruption. To some degree we will see a little bit stronger market, I think, until we get a more balanced situation between where the freight market is and where capacity is. And that doesn’t mean that overall utilization is strong. Far from it. We think we do think it’s bottomed out. But there is a lot of question of whether the capacity is in the right place. And that tends to shift volumes from the route guide environment into the spot market. So, the spot market could stay hot for weeks to come.

It might come down a little if we’re starting to see some of the inventories get depleted and not necessarily be replaced. We have not become accustomed to any kind of supply-side side disruption like that. It’s usually demand that falls. But the swings have been so abrupt in production that that’s certainly a possibility as well. But we’ve got a lot of disruption that I think is going to keep the market if not continuing to grow, which would be a tall order, but certainly healthy for a few months to come.

Jonathan Starks:  Todd, as you look at that from the intermodal perspective, we saw some real strength early on the trailer side, but we didn’t see it in the broader container segment, but we’ve seen that shift a little bit lately. So how are you viewing that from the intermodal perspective?

Todd Tranausky: Well, thank you, Jon. If we’re really looking at that as sort of surplus to the truck market as folks try to look for additional capacity using intermodal as an outlet, because it’s certainly not coming from imports. Import volume for the ports, no matter what port region you’re looking at, whether it’s West Coast, whether it’s Western Canada, whether it’s the Gulf, whether it’s the East Coast. It’s not import volumes that are powering that. And so we look at the intermodal surge that we’ve seen as being folks looking for capacity that they can’t find in the spot truck market and using intermodal as a way to just sort of be a relief valve, be a bleed valve for that. And we’ll have to see if that lasts long enough to get to higher import volumes, to get to sustained levels of increase. If that’s going to last long enough, it’s going to be more of a blip for the moment. I think it’s a blip. And once trucking sort of normalizes, I think we’ll be fine.

Eric Starks: Let me throw a couple comments in for this. I think one of the things that we were looking at on the trucking side is that we were expecting a rebound as we came to December. That was a given. What we didn’t expect is in the spot market for it to rebound as fast as it did to come back to quote-unquote, normal. If you look at what’s happened with the rates, we’d look at the number of loads. All these things have really normalized and a lot of ways and in fact, we’ve seen more load speed posted than we might traditionally at this point in time anyways.

But broadly speaking, and this kind of plays into the intermodal rate is, the fundamental economic activity underlying that is not there enough to support continued strength at those types of levels on an ongoing basis as we move through the summer.  we need to see economic activity picking up and having a base there that will keep us at these potentially higher levels. And that’s what I’m a little bit worried about is, can we get demand up high enough to sustain that type of activity? And I’m just not quite sure we’re there yet.

QUESTION 2: Automotive Market, Rail, & Equipment

Q: We’ve seen a dramatic uptick in the automotive market, moving items on the rail as they ramp up production. Is their ability to see continued growth there? How do you see sort of that weekly data on the transportation equipment side beginning to level off or still show growth over the next month or so?

Todd Tranausky: I think we’re definitely starting to see some leveling off in automotive and I would expect that to continue.  we saw a dramatic ramp up as plants reopened. That has obviously slowed down as those plants have gotten to more normal production rates. We don’t expect them to get all laid back to where they were before the pandemic. Auto sales have not gotten all the way back to where they were before the pandemic. We were running 16, 17 million annual sales. Now we’re down to 12 and 13 million.  there’s a clear step down there. We’re not going to get all the way back in automotive. We wouldn’t expect to get all the way back.

We’re probably starting to level off right about where we will end up, probably right about twenty-three or twenty-four thousand carloads a week number. Probably not a whole lot of upward momentum on that given where we are in terms of demand, in terms of the overall quality of the U.S. consumer.

Jonathan Starks:  Eric, can I ask you a question about automotive sales? They obviously dropped down to a low level during the quarantine. But how do we see that coming back? Is it able to come back to a normal level? What we had pre-pandemic or is it likely to be reduced, or is there pent up demand that might create a surge of activity? How do we see that right now?

Eric Starks: Yes, yes, yes, and yes. I mean, it’s a mixed bag here. And that’s the thing that’s been so crazy. We got a lot of people getting money that the government sent out to everybody and they felt good about things. And they said, you know what, I need to spend it. And we did see people go out buying some automobiles and we also saw a handful of deals there. Now, the auto companies are going to be trying to figure out how do they continue some of the momentum that they saw as they moved through this and getting people excited about buying. That doesn’t necessarily mean that they did fully buy. We’ve been hearing that they are not wanting to give the incentives. But I think they’re going to have to continue to give incentives to keep people out there and to buy.

If we see another round of the government being able to send out some additional cash to people that could help and that’ll be interesting. But one of the broader things, though, is some of it comes down to production side. We saw the production offline for an extended period. We’re trying to get supply chains back into a more normalized range. We’re trying to see if we could get Mexico fully up and then the U.S. supply chain moving.  I think there’s going to be some pains all the way through. I just don’t see us getting back to those peak levels this year, but that I’d still see some further increases. There is so much uncertainty right now. Are we going to see the consumer buy? And it’s unclear. I mean, we’ve definitely seen the savings rate going up.  some people have money. But I think that there’s becoming a big disconnect between who has cash and who doesn’t. And those who have cash right now are happy just to sit on it for a little period. I just don’t know how this one’s going to play out.

QUESTION 3: Canadian Grain Movements

Q: One item on the rail side that has been steady is grain. But we’ve also seen some pretty strong Canadian grain movements. Are there issues that are potentially shifting where grain moves are occurring right now? Or does it look to just be a near-term impact that’ll get back to a more normal level?

Todd Tranausky: Jon, it’s a great question. Grain is a sector where, in a pandemic or not, people still need to eat. And it’s one of those sectors that has been around the five-year average continually as we’ve gone through the pandemic. It hasn’t seen the sharp decline that we’ve seen in other segments. And we’ve gotten into an issue in terms of U.S. and Canada. People must remember, go back a year ago, we had a very weak planting season in the US, had a very weak harvest. Canada had a bumper harvest. And coming into the year, Canada had a lot more stockpile of grain to move than the US. And so it’s not unsurprising that we would see, until we get around to the next harvest, that we would see Canada take advantage of that additional loadings, the additional inventory and harvest that they have, To be able to try and to move additional grain while the U.S. waits for that next harvest. We haven’t had that full harvest. 2020 will be a lot better than 2019.

We would expect to see 2020 harvest numbers, and 2020 grain available to move, be a lot higher than last year. And so it’s not unsurprising this year that you would expect to see Canada outperform the US, but that will probably go like a more normal a ratio between the two countries once you get into twenty twenty-one. And you have a traditional harvest under your belt.

QUESTION 4: Trucking, Overcapacity, & Payroll Protection Program

Q: There’s basically one key question that’s overriding everything else on the truck side, and that’s the issue of capacity. You went into some pretty good detail on the PPP loans and some of the effect on the truckload arena. Do you believe that that is creating an overcapacity situation in the trucking market? Or do you see it as behaving normally now?

Avery Vise: Well, it is disrupting things in a sense. And I think here I would make a distinction between active capacity and available capacity. And I’ll explain that in a second. We clearly do not have far too much capacity or else I don’t think we’d be seeing the strength in the spot market that we’re seeing.

But I do think that overall, we are still are a little soft in capacity. In other words, we are just slightly over capacity for inactive capacity. What I mean by available capacity is, there is obviously a difference between having a driver in the seat operating, and having a driver furloughed. And I think with the situation right now is that there are a lot of furloughed drivers that essentially are cooling their heels. They can come back, but there’s just not enough freight for them right now, especially given that you have this disruption not only with PPP, but also the unemployment benefits that are out there. Because in a lot of cases, it would be hard for some of these carriers to bring back drivers and have them make as much money that they are making while they’re unemployed. So rather than fight that battle, I think a lot of them are trying to make do through this period until it’s over. Regarding the PPP program, I think the issue there is that the money has certainly kept businesses afloat that otherwise would have gone out of business.

But the jury’s still out on how long that is going to last. That money is not going to last forever. There is some talk of a program whereby existing recipients will get another tranche of loans. They’ve already kind of made things a little squishy by changing the terms. In the original terms, you basically need to keep your workforce in place to qualify for forgiveness. And now they have stretched that out really through the end of the year at least. Who knows what they might ultimately do, and so in a lot of cases you can have continued furloughs of drivers. That’s why the status of where we are in capacity gets a little fuzzy. It would be cleaner, I think, for everybody if we had a little bit more clarity on how long PPP would last. How long the accountability there would last. How long the unemployment program’s going to last. And then a whole host of other things, including some of the drug testing requirements that have been loosened up. I think all of this has fueled the spot market to some degree, because I think it is complicating trucking companies’ management decision on when to bring workers back.

I think the original program that we saw, that would have been answered because they would have had to have brought those drivers back to get their loans forgiven. Now, they have a lot more time on that. I do think that the money, if not added to by Congress, that that money is going to start running short soon. And I think we are going to have some bankruptcies in the months to come. That is going to have an immediate impact on capacity. Now, keep in mind that a trucking company bankruptcy doesn’t necessarily mean you lose the capacity. That equipment and those drivers can go elsewhere, and they often do. And I think we’ve seen that actually over the last couple of years. But there is a lag in that and there is a disruption that I think would fuel the spot market and would send rates up higher in the near term.

Eric Starks: I would completely agree with everything that Avery said. The one thing that I want to highlight is that this decline that we saw was so unprecedented, that pretty much everybody, and it was not just trucking it was all industries, everybody was sidelined. So the ability for us to have a workforce that’s already in place, and Avery indicated this already, but what I want to do is highlight that we could see a substantial recovery if things pick up sooner rather than later. And you have the drivers available. We have seen where you have this amount of capacity sitting there, in the sense of idle trucks not doing anything. But we’ve never seen anything drop this fast. And if this continues to linger for too long, then those drivers eventually disappear. They are no longer available to the fleets and to the carriers to then put them back into things. And I think that’s where I get worried, is the longer this lasts and extends, the harder it will be for a true recovery.

Avery Vise: I think there’s a couple of important points here. One is, it’s looking like Congress may reauthorize some level of federal unemployment augmentation or supplement to state unemployment. We’ve seen some coverage today out of The Wall Street Journal and in other outlets about the government being open to that.

But we don’t expect them to be as generous necessarily. And I think that is going to make things very different. Right now we have frozen, as I said earlier, there’s a difference between available and inactive. And I think we have we have a big pool of available capacity. And as Eric said, the longer that goes by, if we continue the six hundred dollars a week unemployment, that available capacity might stay for quite a while. If that gets cut back, then drivers start to look. They are thinking, well I’m not making as much now unemployed as I used to make when I did have a job. So maybe I want to find a job. And as I said in the webinar, one place they can look is in ecommerce in parcel and local delivery sector, because while those wages typically are not as much, they give drivers a lot more flexibility. And it is fundamentally the same job. It’s driving different equipment. But if you’re driving a big rig, driving a sprinter van is not going to be overly taxing for you. So I agree with Eric. I think there is a timeframe now where this capacity can come back as quickly as it’s needed.

I mean, look at the Great Recession. The peak in payroll employment in trucking was a year before we formally were in the recession. The recession formally started December of 07. We peaked in trucking employment in January of 07. And there was a lot of construction and manufacturing that took place during that time. We didn’t know that we were about to collapse and a lot of those drivers we’re getting fewer and fewer miles, taking home less money. They finally went off to do other things. That isn’t happening yet, although we may find that it is already happening with local delivery. But if it isn’t already happening, it will happen.

QUESTION 5: Consumer vs Industrial Products in Intermodal

Q: When we look at the intermodal segment, we tend to think of it as very consumer-oriented, but do we have any data that really helps us understand how much of that is truly geared towards the consumer versus how much is going into the industrial arena?

Todd Tranausky: We don’t have hard data on that, but a good way to think about it is the larger boxes, the 40s and 53s are going to be those consumer goods. And that’s the vast majority of moves in intermodal. And the 20-foot containers are going to be more of that industrial product, more of that heavy, industrial manufacturing equipment type of good. The reason that they move in a 20-foot box is because it’s the kind of goods that are going to weigh out before they cube out. It’s a big, heavy piece of industrial product, whereas consumer goods are generally fairly lightweight. And they’re going to cube out before they weigh out. They can use all of the available extra space because they don’t have the same weigh out issue that you do if you’re doing a bigger, heavier industrial good, where you’re not gaining anything from being any bigger than 20 feet.

QUESTION 6: Rail Carload Volumes

Q: As you look at the carload business, we’ve highlighted for a considerable amount of time that volumes have gone down dramatically there. How far back do we have to look just to see a prior year comparison in which volumes were at this level?

Todd Tranausky: Well, on an absolute level of volume, in a non-holiday week, it hasn’t happened at least since 2007. Now, it’s happened a couple of times in the Christmas and New Year’s holiday weeks over the last 13, 14 years. The Christmas and New Year’s holiday weeks are the slowest weeks of the year. And every year you see a seasonal drop off the cliff in carload volume as folks close for the holiday. Take time off. Take downtime.

The last time we saw it was just this past year. The Christmas week of twenty nineteen. The other times we’ve seen that, we’ve seen it Christmas and New Year’s weeks in 2018, 2015, 2012 and 2009. So it’s happened. It always happened in those holiday weeks where you would expect significantly lower volumes. It hasn’t happened in a non-holiday week.

QUESTION 7: Railcar Utilization

Q: We touched base on railcar utilization several times in the webinar. When was the last time that we saw a true peak? A high level of railcar utilization. When was that? What was the actual level that we were running at?

Todd Tranausky: It really depends on what you define as a peak. If you look at the last cycle, the peak of the last cycle was in the second quarter of twenty eighteen. We were at eighty one percent. Right about the historical average. If you look at the last true peak of demand, the last time we were at a truly high level, we were back about one hundred percent capacity utilization back in the fourth quarter of 2014. It has certainly been a while since we’ve been at those really strong, really high peak levels.

Jonathan Starks: But that also indicates that within the span of about five years or so, it has been able to cut utilization in half, which is just a substantial amount of movement and something that typically doesn’t move that fast.

Todd Tranausky: Yeah, absolutely. The rail industry has changed a lot in that time. You’ve seen a lot of folks with a low interest rate environment. Folks get into the rail equipment markets to have a hard asset, as a place to earn a return. That’s not sort of the traditional homes for money that folks have looked for. You’ve also had some car types being invested in that were not needed in the numbers in which they were built. Certainly, small cube covered hoppers for drilling sand, there’s a lot of those available that are not needed that need to be repurposed. There’s also a lot of open-top hoppers and those that go directly to the coal market. Obviously, coal has seen a dramatic shift in its fortunes over that time. Things have dramatically changed. There’s a lot of equipment that folks thought they were going to use, really for the full lifespan, the full 40 years of0 the asset in hauling Western coal. And a lot of that equipment is now 25, 30 years old. If scrap prices go up, it is a real candidate for scrap and that would certainly help that utilization number. But until we until we get there, it’s not going to move noticeably until you sort of cycle those events.

QUESTION 8: Truck Volumes & Demand Forecasting Methodology

Q: We’ve spent basically the lifetime of FTR trying to understand truck volumes, and so I’m going to ask you for the boilerplate viewpoint of how we come up with understanding what truck volumes are, and then what are some of the key aspects we use to understand how to forecast demand in that segment?

Eric Starks: Awesome. 30 years in 30 seconds. I can do that. The one thing I do want to say is we don’t distinguish at the front end of when we forecast, is it going to be truck demand or rail demand. It is just demand. And then we can look at what’s happening within the different commodity types and who traditionally moves it. So we have a distinct focus on the goods production sector. Within that, we are looking at initially GDP and we’re saying what’s happening within GDP? What’s the breakdown between services, what’s happening within the consumer, what’s going on with durables and nondurables? What’s the outlook for business investment in equipment, for structures, for the housing market and then for the goods sectors on the imports and exports? So we then take that. We look at what’s happening at the detailed level within the industrial production, and the Federal Reserve puts together great data and we can forecast out that data and then it allows us to then start segmenting down by commodity types. And at that point in time, we can look at what is the outlook for each of the commodity types. We look at two hundred nine distinct commodity groups. We forecast those out. Then we know what rail is. We know what water pipeline and air is. Subtract that out and it gives this truck. So that’s the process that we go through on a monthly basis, on a daily basis to understand that. But industrial production is a significant portion of the amount of freight that truck moves. We always think about the sexy retail side, the consumer side. That’s not the bulk of the freight that’s out there. So that’s a big issue. And what we look at and what drives our forecast.

QUESTION 9: Refrigerated Trucking

Q: Refrigerated was certainly a big topic that got focused on early in the quarantine. We had this big, huge surge in restocking demand. What have we seen on refrigerated lately? And what’s some of the basics of our outlook for that segment?

Avery Vise: Sure. We got to levels in March because of the panic buying in in the early stages that we’d never seen before. And quite possibly we’ll never see again in the spot market. The disruption in so many ways on both demand and supply was just so extreme. You had this instantaneous shift between institutional food service to grocery. It’s just the proverbial perfect storm. So since then, all the sectors bottomed out around the middle of April. But it’s interesting because refrigerator has probably the most surprising trajectory since then. It’s seen the least time at bottom, whereas both flatbed–especially flatbed–and then drive van we’re stuck at bottom for quite a while. Refrigerated really didn’t stay there very long. And it started to come back quickly. But it hit this peak, based on our truck recovery index, in early May. And then just didn’t go anywhere.

And in fact, it backtracked some during the back half of May. And frankly, it is now recovered well to the point where it is low volumes on an adjusted basis. The index volumes are above where they were before the restocking phase. But we only saw that strength at the very end of June, which is when we normally would see a seasonal bump. We obviously had that seasonal bump in addition to some other factors, which is probably that we’re still seeing this kind of imbalance going back and forth. As restaurants reopened a lot of them had frozen goods that were still fine. They were only needing to replace fresh goods. And by the time you get to the end of June, a lot of those restaurants now are starting to need everything else. As we look ahead, as we normally do, we see refrigerated tending to be less volatile than other sectors because food inherently is less volatile.

When we look at, for example, the loadings outlook for this year, every segment is negative. Refrigerated is the least negative segment of it all. And then conversely, next year, we’re expecting almost all the segments to rebound, obviously off a pretty low base. And, other than I think tank, we expect refrigerated to have the least growth. But again, we don’t expect those big swings in refrigerated. And then when we look at the rate environment, it’s kind of similar. We don’t see, not surprisingly, any segment being positive in 2020 on rates versus 2019. But refrigerated is a lot better. The outlook for refrigerated is a lot better than the other sectors in the outlook for 2021 and is strong there as well. It’s rates and volumes do not obviously move always in lockstep. There’s a lot of other issues, including capacity. I guess overall I would say that’s the general outlook for refrigerated. It generally is going to hold up as being more stable than the others. It probably is less subject to further revisions as we go on, because, again, people eat, they are not necessarily going to buy consumer goods in the levels that they always have.

QUESTION 10: Trucking Length of Haul & eCommerce

Q: As the trucking environment potentially shifts, have we seen a big shift in what the length of haul for trucking is due to changes in all the local eCommerce delivery or are there other changes that are occurring that basically offset what’s going on around eCommerce?

Avery Vise: It’s actually more of a complicated question than you might think, because I think the obvious answer is, well, things are shortening because people are getting stuff delivered at home by parcel and local delivery. And we’ve certainly seen data both in employment and in retail sales that shows non-store retail being huge. So the purpose of there being a lot of local e commerce is not just, obvious based on what we went through, particularly in March and April. It’s showing up in the data. But I think that as it applies to how it affects length of haul it’s more complicated. To some extent, yes, because we are seeing more deliveries, between DCs, which is tending to shorten that length of haul. Also, we’re seeing a lot of the ecommerce being fulfilled, not through direct at home delivery, but through pickups by the end user, by the purchaser at curbside. For the major big box retailers and frankly, grocery stores and all over the place, you see that increasing during April and even well into May. The other issue is when we look at length of haul for truck, we tend to look at medium and heavy duty. That’s where the data is. A lot of the shortest holes in there are being done by very small pieces of equipment, where we just don’t have that kind of data. And I guess the short answer is, it’s a little complicated. It’s a little hard to read all of those tea leaves in the midst of everything that was happening in the last three months.

QUESTION 11: Dakota Access Pipeline & Rail

Q: We’ve seen recently with the Dakota Access Pipeline and even over a more extended period time in which the rail side is impacted by regulations or legal, not just supply and demand. With the potential changes with the Dakota Access Pipeline, is that going to affect the railcar environment? What do you see happening?

Todd Tranausky: Let’s back up for a second and get everybody at a level base here. The Dakota Access Pipeline is a crude oil pipeline that hauls crude out of the Midwest, down to consumption markets. And there is a lawsuit over whether its environmental permit is valid or not. It must cross a river. It needs an Army Corps permit to do that. Now, when the pipeline was first commissioned, there was a lot of permitting and a lot of angst about this permit. The permit has since been rescinded. It’s unknown whether folks are going to be able to continue to ship on that pipeline.

There was an injunction that the pipeline owners asked for to be able to keep operating the pipeline while the appeal was ongoing. That appeal was denied by a judge. But we’ve heard anecdotally that the pipeline is still taking commitments for shippers in what would be a down period. And we’re trying to figure out what that means, whether the pipeline will be allowed to keep operating. People will need to find alternatives to move that product to market. Now, tank cars are among the best utilized equipment out there. Even as we’ve seen utilization really face a lot of threats and a lot of issues out there, Tank cars are fairly well utilized. They’re right around the historic long run average number. You could potentially see an issue if the market thinks that this is going to be a long-term issue, that they’re not going to be able to get this pipeline back up in a timely fashion. Remember, rail cars are long lived assets. You don’t lease them for short terms generally. You generally want to lease them for multiple years. And an outage for a month, an outage for two months, the market’s not really going to make those kinds of changes. Now, if the markets think it would be out of for longer, then you could see those kinds of shifts occur.

QUESTION 12: Intermodal Competitive Index

Jonathan Starks: You brought up the Intermodal Competitive Index in the webinar. I would like you to help people understand what does that index measure and where can they find it?

Todd Tranausky: The intermodal competitive index measures the competitiveness of intermodal relative to the domestic truckload market. And it gives you a sense of where intermodal conditions are relative to truck. Is it positive, at which point intermodal would have an advantage relative to truck? And what is the magnitude of that advantage?

If it’s double digits, then that suggests that you’re going to see people change their behavior and people move volumes on a permanent basis from one mode to the other. If it’s negative, especially if it’s very negative as it has been in the recent past, that suggests that intermodal is at a very particular disadvantage because the truck folks are going to take volumes and move items over from intermodal to the truckload market. And it’s so it gives you a sense of how competitive intermodal is, and where is that competitive advantage so you can make changes, make decisions about your supply chain, and you can find that as part of our intermodal dashboard product. It’s there. It’s updated every month. And it gives you a snapshot. Where does the competitive balance lie? Now, you can also get a sense of where things stand by the recovery indexes for both rail and truck on the FTR Corona virus Web site page that will have the recovery index metrics that we talked about in the webinar itself to get a sense of how close to a full recovery pre pandemic level are we? And you’re going to have a sense of where the modes are, is one mode performing better the other? And as we saw in the webinar, truck is recovering a lot quicker than railcar loadings. And you can get a sense of that in real time being updated on our web site, ftrintel.com/coronavirus.

Q&A Podcast Audio:

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The July 2020 Key Issues in Transportation webinar replay is available now along with the full PDF presentation at www.FTRintel.com/KeyIssues.